Larger Than Life

Tip 'o the hat goes out to Karl Denninger of Market Ticker Forums - (a daily 'must read' for yours truly) for THIS particular story:

Hackers 'expose global warming
con': Sceptics claim that leaked
emails reveal research centre
massaged temperature data

The Daily Mail Online | Story last updated at 1:36 AM on 21st November 2009


Hackers targeted the University of East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit, pictured, and published sensitive
emails on the internet. Image: The Daily Mail / University of East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit

By Fiona Macrae
Last updated at 1:36 AM on 21st November 2009
One of the world’s leading climate change research centres has been accused of manipulating data on global warming after thousands of private emails and documents were leaked. Hackers targeted the University of East Anglia’s Climatic Research Unit and published the files, including some personal messages, on the internet. Among the most damaging is one which appears to suggest using a ‘trick’ to massage years of temperature data to ‘hide the decline’. The CRU, which plays a leading role in compiling UN reports and tracks long-term changes in temperature, has repeatedly refused to provide detailed information about the data underlying the temperature records. It is thought that this could have triggered the theft. Climate change sceptics claim that some of the leaked messages discuss ways of manipulating data that fails to comply with the establishment view that climate change is real and is being driven by man.

The email suggesting ‘hiding the decline’ is purported to be from Phil Jones, the unit’s director. He denied trying to mislead, telling the TGIF digital newspaper he had no idea what he meant by the phrase. ‘That was an email from ten years ago,’ he said. ‘Can you remember the exact context of an email you wrote ten years ago?’ Another message has been interpreted as an attempt to control the publication of research carried out by sceptical scientists. One way of doing this would be by loading the panel of researchers who review papers ahead of publication with experts who are ‘on-message’. Talk of a figure being ‘shoehorned’ into a report from the UN’s International Panel of Climate Change appears in another of the documents.

Although the data was stored on the university’s computer system, the email exchanges also involve experts from other institutions around the world. A spokesman for the University of East Anglia said: ‘We are aware that information from a server used for research information in one area of the university has been made available on public websites. ‘Because of the volume of this information we cannot currently confirm that all of this material is genuine. ‘This information has been obtained and published without our permission and we took immediate action to remove the server in question from operation. ‘We are undertaking a thorough internal investigation and we have involved the police in this inquiry.’ The Met Office collaborates with the East Anglia unit on a variety of research projects, including global temperature records.

Please See Rest of Story @ LINK

As per the above story - Admittedly, I have so much going on in my mind right now - Its’ difficult to just randomly itemize a list of all the emotions stirring in myself over this issue.

This forum, its’ members, readers & participants know full well my own particular stance concerning AGW (Anthropogenic Global Warming), in that I’d always believed mankind - in its’ proliferation (sheer size and number) as well as technological pursuits, could, and would - have an effect upon the planet in which we inhabit. That view has not changed. That degree in which those effects may be realized, however - in lieu of this latest most distressing information - has.

IF what has been exposed by this hack is authentic, (and at this point in time it seems damn near confirmable) - We’re utterly left with no other choice but to go back to ‘square one’ - Having set the clock back easily the full length of this one’s lifetime.

As distressing as this hack may prove - And irregardless of what we may believe, held to steadfast previous - Where would our journalistic integrity be found? If we should choose to ignore?

And this, dear readers - may not be ignored.

In my navigations throughout the ‘net, reading all I could on this latest most damning material, (its’ a virtual war out there) - with academics on both sides of the issue lobbing verbal salvos to-and-fro - I’ve never witnessed anything like this in my life; Opponents of AGW having a field-day, proponents of same firmly locked arm-in-arm in defense mode and damage control - - utter craziness.

The most stupid battle-cry coming from those who wish so badly for the head of the hacker in question?

As it [the information] - on the face of it - appears quite credible so far - And [if] after investigation it is found that all of these E-Mails/files of info. have not in any/way/shape/form been tampered with -

Would you shoot the messenger merely for the fact that the messenger (in this case) bears the truth?

NO. The messenger isn’t the issue here, folks. Hands off if innocent of tampering -w- the info. within the E-Mails / data as published - I would hope this person (or persons) be granted full immunity from prosecution. The truth here should be what we’re after - As well, those that originally intended data manipulation, subterfuge, character assassination of the academic opposition, (as well, what I understand) the deletion of E-Mails and data that did not serve their purposes for what it seems was nothing more than a pursuit of a false agenda, (and also) a healthy dosing of gov’t funding.

The issue, dear reader, if it all prove true - is who cooked which data and why.

Doubtless, this topic won’t be going away any time soon. Though there exist forces that would wish this latest debacle shoved-under-the-rug and forgotten, it’s wildly impossible to even suppose that it could be at this point, as already - the information contained within the hack has been copied and re-copied a millionfold and circled the globe and untold number of times.

I understand it be of the size of some 61 megs. of information - and in that, if anyone out there knows of a reliable source where this may be downloaded for reading, I ask that you post those LINKS where it may be obtained below.

TIA.

Joe (Bigsky770) *sigh*

_________________
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.”

- - Groucho Marx

It all sounds a possibility to me (although the source is the Daily Fail. ) It does all tie in with other threads and posts here, suggesting that climate change is natural and not man-made.

http://www.larger-than-life.org/modules ... 12&start=0

And of course, our old buddy Martin Durkin:

http://www.larger-than-life.org/modules ... 51&start=0

I can't understand why though (if these allegations are true) the data would be manipulated in favour of man-made GW. I would have thought it would be manipulated the other way - to make it appear that man-made GW is a myth, because that would be of most benefit to the mega oil corporations and atmosphere polluters.

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Pobody's nerfect

I suspect that Karl felt it necessary to opine on this subject in lieu of the fact that the science of AGW was, and is - very much supported by that same government carelessly tossing money into this sort of confabrication so that once policy may be established, ever more funding may be procured through excessive taxations (they undoubtedly) have every and all intentions upon abusing (like everything else) - and have no objectives upon providing any form of transparency for.

But then, they are known for this type of behavior, are they not?

As for “The Daily Mail” being the *only* source, not anymore, my friend - Search out the articles LINKED here: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&sourc ... a=N&tab=wn, though do a google search - This has grown so big as a story NOW that nearly every major news-outlet is now running the story.

As for the veracity of the story? A few scientists’ whos’ names have appeared in the E-Mails of question have stepped forward - And acknowledged that yes, they did post these E-Mails

Heh. . .As for Martin Durkin? Trust me when I say - This is no easy pill for me to swallow.



To be sure Smersh, there are forces on both sides of this issue (proponents/opponents) - The beauty of it in the eyes of the gov’t?

Either way, its’ a ‘win/win’ situation; Should the AGW believers be shot-down, it will most certainly be a win for big business - (which, as I’m sure you’re aware) is now the de-facto controller of the new Amerika thru (corporate socialism) via despicable lobbying tactics handing money to the corrupt political machine - If, on the other hand, the AGW crowd were to win, it would be a tax squeeze upon the middle-class providing our gov’t with all the non-transparent funding where, at any and every given opportunity they will abuse their office(s) in ways we cannot imagine thru collected taxes. . .

Like THIS GUY - (of note earlier), hoping to keep things going just the way they have been. . .

In closing this post Smersh - Alls’ I can say is you know me - In that time you’ve spent these last few years as a member of this forum, you doubtless have seen an enormous amount of changes in my thinking concerning many topics, (my feelings RE: George Bush for one) - When faced with certain overwhelming evidence, what else? Can one do but evolve their thinking?

Joe (Bigsky770)

_________________
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.”

- - Groucho Marx

Well you are correct - this story is all over the place now and creating major waves it seems. Physorg are carrying the same AP report now as well and they don't normally post BS on their site.

http://www.physorg.com/news178046136.html

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Pobody's nerfect

From site:



And:



Finally:





Let’s look up the word ‘Trick’:



- Phil? Oh Philip. . . Does ‘your’ definition of ‘trick’ fit what is commonly accepted in the English language?

And - btw, please see #6 of the screenshot above, and (no), I’m not laughing.

Joe (Bigsky770)

_________________
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.”

- - Groucho Marx

This is quite a big story isn't it? Try copy / pasting some of the body text of those e-mails into Google and they are shown on websites all over the place.

FYI, nobody had started a thread at SDC so I started one myself in the Forces of Nature section here. It's already started to cause a bit of a stir there.

Good find Joe.

And here's a story on the Beeb: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8370282.stm

I think this is "Climategate."

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Pobody's nerfect

It's no coincidence that these e-mails "leaked" just before the climate summit.

Nobody seems concerned about the fact that the anti-climate change lobby stoops to hacking..

If anyone here sees this news as PROOF that there is nothing wrong with our climate, IMO that's just plain short sighted. There is an overwhelming burden of evidence telling us that the climate actually IS going down the tubes, notwithstanding a few stupid poxy e-mails.

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My best advice to anyone who wants to raise a happy, mentally healthy child is: Keep him or her as far away from a church as you can.. (F. Zappa)
"How ironic... You eat vegetarian and speak baloney" -- Bucky Catt
Blackadder: Baldrick, have you no idea what irony is?
Baldrick: Yes, it's like goldy and bronzy only it's made out of iron.

I agree the climate is changing. It's pretty much of a no-brainer to see that imo. As I understand it, these e-mails aren't saying there is no climate change, but no man-made climate change. The suggestion is that it's part of a natural cycle. (As has been suggested for quite some while now - see those threads here at LTL I linked further up in this threadk, with posts and links showing that the entire solar system is heating up.)

Since I'm an old git I can remember the autums and winters we had back in the 1950s and 1960s and they were much colder than this. Winter 1963 here in the UK seemed like Siberia, compared to what we get now.

Oh btw, Cockermouth in Cumbria was under 2.8 metres of water the other day. The water in the high street was above the level of most of the shop fronts (they have managed to clear it up now and done an amazing job. I saw it about an hour ago on the BBC Breakfast News on tv.)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8373217.stm

A police officer tragically drowned when he was directing traffic off a bridge in the floods, when the bridge collapsed and he fell into the River Derwent.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/8371233.stm

Ok, we have always had flooding from time to time in the UK, but this is unreal - as is the flooding we've been getting just about every year over the last quite a number of years now. If that isn't climate change, I don't know what is.

But is it anthropogenic (man-made?) Seems not, in my opinion.

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Pobody's nerfect

If you had any idea how many billions of tons of carbon dioxide are spwen into the atmosphere every year, you'd be shocked. China and India are now starting to throw themselves in the mix and things can only get worse. If we chop away the rest of the forests and pollute the oceans so algeae vanish from existence, we kill off all ways for our planet to self regulate the conversion of CO2.

The crisis may not be ENTIRELY self made, but it's sheer arrogance to think we did not play a part in it.

_________________
My best advice to anyone who wants to raise a happy, mentally healthy child is: Keep him or her as far away from a church as you can.. (F. Zappa)
"How ironic... You eat vegetarian and speak baloney" -- Bucky Catt
Blackadder: Baldrick, have you no idea what irony is?
Baldrick: Yes, it's like goldy and bronzy only it's made out of iron.

This is my greatest fear, people -

That all cares for the environment may simply be tossed out the window, baby, bathwater & all, for the actions of some careless high profile climatologists & scientists shoehorning data to fit a hypothesis.

Someone (at another forum) - forget who - opined that this amounted to 'science made up as you go along', (apt description IMHO) and I am disgusted beyond words.

I don't doubt that there was indeed something very significant to the timing here. A person would have to be utterly naive not to see it. Nonetheless, we cannot continue in the same direction based on the incorrect.

Where the f*** will this leave us?

(and by the 'us', I mean those that give half a damn for the environment?)

I have not changed my view that there are changes occurring - We need to discover the true source of those changes, (and, if possible) work at mitigating those effects.

Joe (Bigsky770)

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“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.”

- - Groucho Marx

This leaked e-mails story was the main item on Newsnight on the BBC last night. Jeremy Paxman interviewed a scientist who expressed concerns that these e-mails will give a poor impression of scientists to the general public ...

Part 1

Part 2

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Pobody's nerfect

I believe all the leaked e-mails are here:

http://www.eastangliaemails.com/index.php

_________________
Pobody's nerfect

Wonderful find, Smersh!

I've begun randomly hitting some of those E-Mails - - Some can be a real eye-opener thats' not seen publishing on any other forum or blog prior this. A quick sampling:

From site:


- The above from Page 42, 1254746802.txt, Oct 05, this year - -

So far, I've read @ random roughly 12. Lot of infighting and back-biting would seem to indicate that this *may not* have been a hack, though rather, someone on the inside who was just disgusted -w- the state of affairs and decided to drop a dime on the whole of it. . .But that's just a suspician at this point - Can't say for certain.

Incredible resource there. Again, thanks!

Again - Weird mix of feelings here. While I am thankful for the find, I'd prefer it not true. Guess that's just the way it rolls, eh?

Joe (Bigsky770)

_________________
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.”

- - Groucho Marx

Thanks go to a guy over at SDC for finding those e-mails and posting them in the thread I started there.

Did you watch the Newsnight videos in my post before that Joe? Quite an interesitng report and debate.

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Pobody's nerfect

Sorry, though thanks for the reminder. I went straight away to YouTube and watched, (been busy preparing for Turkey day)

The program (I think) tends to focus too much on 'looseness of language' and not enough on the attempt to conceal. ergo:

From site:


The above excerpted from Page 20, 1109021312.txt, 21 Feb 2005.

Ummm. . .I'd like an explanation for that?!?!?

. . .Or maybe - there isn't one?!?

Joe (Bigsky770)

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“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.”

- - Groucho Marx

Well here's something just a little disturbing, from what we can see on this video. A reporter gets hassled by UN security after asking a question about "Climategate" at the summit in Copenhagen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytKI6kHs7Jw

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Pobody's nerfect

Great VID, Smersh.

- And I would be angry (otherwise) for the poor treatment rec'd by this individual whose only crime is that he asked a pertinent question concerning the data. . .But I'm not.

And there's a good reason WHY I'm not. You see, its' gone waaaaayyyy too far. Read the following story and you'll see WHY.

- Will be posting it shortly on our HomePage.

P.S. - I know how you feel about "The Daily Mail" though in this case, its' all TRUE, I'm afraid. The Russians have now added their voices to the many that claimed the data's been 'cherry picked' and the papers so many are bowing to religiously is missing some 40% of the Russian data that would tend to show 'Global Warming' as a ruse.

Hey peeps - As before, I maintain mixed feelings o'er this entire imbroglio - - I'm happy that the truth has finally been revealed, but regret what a world may do in the future, should it happen that a studious scientist find something we should find alarm with - - Who the f*** is going to listen?

Joe (Bigsky770)

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“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.”

- - Groucho Marx

Personally, I'd be surprised if the whole truth has been revealed as far as climate change is concerned because, as has been mentioned elsewhere by some scientists, (and suggested in the Newsnight video I posted) the mechanisms that determine our climate are far too complex to simply pigeon-hole into either "entirely man-made" or "entirely natural" answer boxes. Whilst it does seem very likely that we are currently undergoing a natural change in climate, I would have thought that unless we make efforts to control pollution and carbon emissions we will only make the situation worse, as Dutchie said. So I certainly hope people will still listen.

Going back to the reporter in the video I posted - I just found out he is Phelim McAleer, a journalist and filmmaker who last year produced "Not Evil Just Wrong," which disputes many of the assertions made in Al Gore's documentary, "An Inconvenient Truth."

McAleer also apparently entered the Climate summit conference hall earlier this week dressed in a polar bear outfit with "Where is Phil Jones?" (the scientist at the heart of the leaked e-mails scandal) written on the front and used a megaphone to shout out "PHIL JONES??? HAS ANYONE SEEN PHIL JONES???"

The strange thing is, nobody threw him out of the hall then ...

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2009/12/15/polar-bear-phil-jones/

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Pobody's nerfect

That part I get, (that is) I understand why a body wouldn't hassle someone wearing a Polar-bear suit while shouting thru a megaphone. That would be just plain bad form. . .

That'er attacking someone wearing a Barney the purple Dinosaur suit.

Yah, that too. Think its' referred to as 'sacred cows' sumpthin' 'er other.

There are limits tho. This guy is just plain creepy:



Although no-one really has figured out why - - Some things just 'are', if yah catch my drift. . .

Please excuse the thread diversion. Back to topic;

I can't see anything being worked out at all in Copenhagen. Its' been so far derailed think its' safe to say it will go down in history as one of the great all-time worst disasters ever not only for the indecision of its' members but the division within those same ranks. Pro-eco's are standing on the sidelines speechless while the anti's are laughing so hard they're utterly in stitches & tears.

And hey. . .Even as pro (ecology-wise) as I am - I can't say I blame them. Its' like the prat-fall you find yourself suffering from; In a particularly embarrassing moment, all you can do once you've taken the tumble is get up with as much courage as you may muster, dust yourself off, and laugh @ the moment.

(Quietly you resolve never to be had again, but that's another story). . .

For now, I think I'll settle for Jones' & Mann's heads' placed on pikes.

Well, maybees not that far. Stoning in the town square with rotten tomatoes might make me feel better tho.

Yah. There's a thought. . .

Joe (Bigsky770)

_________________
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.”

- - Groucho Marx

hey Smersh mate, is this you said earlier holding true for this winter still

Since I'm an old git I can remember the autums and winters we had back in the 1950s and 1960s and they were much colder than this. Winter 1963 here in the UK seemed like Siberia, compared to what we get now.