Larger Than Life

Alright, what do Y'all think of JFK's assassination? Lone gunman? Not IMO. Oswald was a lousy shot, and every time they tried to re-create the shooting with that rifle they couldn't. Who was behind it? Cubans? Mafia? Pentagon? Cuba and the Mafia? I've read so many books on it over the years I'm dizzy! Warren Commission was a joke, J. Edgar Hoover controlled that from the beginning. There were a lot of folks who didn't like the Kennedys, mainly mobsters and Cubans. And that single bullet explanation? Puhleese!!! Lyndon Johnson hand-picked the Warren Commission and he and Hoover were good friends. Neither wanted any conspiracy findings. I just love these smilies!

My guess is that the mafia was behind it and framed L.H. Oswald for it. The shots came from the bushes in the bend of the road and from across the road, or even the bridge.

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My best advice to anyone who wants to raise a happy, mentally healthy child is: Keep him or her as far away from a church as you can.. (F. Zappa)
"How ironic... You eat vegetarian and speak baloney" -- Bucky Catt
Blackadder: Baldrick, have you no idea what irony is?
Baldrick: Yes, it's like goldy and bronzy only it's made out of iron.

I'm not completely satisfied with the "official" version myself and the Mafia certainly had the motive and the means. Castro also had a motive but I don't think his Soviet masters would have allowed it - World War 3 and all that. I read a book a while back about Sam Giancana and it delved into the Kennedy assassination and how Joe Kennedy elicited Mafia help in getting JFK elected. The Mob was rewarded by JFK appointing his brother Bobby to become Attorney General who then conducted a crusade against them. People have ended up dead for less.

I read the same book Steve, it was "Double Cross" by Sam ("Mooney") Giancana's brother Chuck and seemed pretty convincing to me at the time.

I have since seen a very well-made TV documentary though, which used computer graphics to do a complete re-enactment of the events in Dallas and concluded (also pretty convincingly) that Oswald was the assassin and acted alone.

I guess you could say I'm still confused!

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Pobody's nerfect

You are correct, Steve, and the Cubans wanted him dead because they felt he let them down with the Bay of Pigs. Dallas was so obviously a setup.

We have a related thread HERE, Jim. Might wanna take a look-see.

As for Conspiracy Theory and its' relation to the JFK assassination, a real touching stone there - Mind you, I'm not predisposed to conspiracy theory naturally - though in this case, the way the Warren Commission was carried (too many freakin' holes) leads one that path inevitable.

Joe (Bigsky770)

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“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.”

- - Groucho Marx

Is it just my computer or does the right-hand side of the screen here sort of bleed off and you cannot entirely read the message posted or a reply? I noticed this in the previous LTL incarnation as well.

I do not have this problem, Jim... Could you mail me a screen shot? (Ctrl+PrtScr and then paste into MS Paint or something).

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My best advice to anyone who wants to raise a happy, mentally healthy child is: Keep him or her as far away from a church as you can.. (F. Zappa)
"How ironic... You eat vegetarian and speak baloney" -- Bucky Catt
Blackadder: Baldrick, have you no idea what irony is?
Baldrick: Yes, it's like goldy and bronzy only it's made out of iron.

I am too. I can't say I'm firmly in the "conspiracy" camp, it's just an intuitive discomfort type of thing with the "official" version. Things like how the autopsy was handled, some aspects of the Warren Commission report, etc. I'm not sure I saw the TV documentary you mention - I've seen several, some that supported the official version, other's that disputed it - but, my misgivings aside, I have nothing really concrete, just a gut feeling.


No problems on my end Jimbo. I access this site from 2 different computers: Old PC with Windows XP Home Edition and Firefox (IE is too slow on this dinosaur) and a laptop w/XP Professional and primarily IE8.

We have some groups, that had motive.

the US government had a motive itself actually, JFK annoyed lots of time-servers in the FBI and CIA. Not unheard of for internal plots against heads of state. if some members of some of the G'ment organisations did it, they may have also controlled the investigation. I think it unlikely this was the party involved.

Castro/Soviets. He didn't usually get involved in assassinations outside his own state though, I never heard of one anyway. And this would have been so hard to organise, for sure he would have had to get SOME local American organisation to help, and then keep quiet. Seems unlikely to me Castro was the main actor, or actually involved at all. And beggars belief that the USSR did it, talk about risky business, and while they did do assassinations, when did they that people didn't almost straight away know every actor, action, and line of command in them?. They leaked at all their joints as I recall.

The mafia. As said above, they had strong reason. They had a great deal of experience and expertise to call on. They had an organisation that was pretty airtight and top-down information quiet, compared to the other possible groups. They had opportunity far more than the other groups, because they had fingers in many many pies, knew all about the city and buildings. Rent kickbacks and people shaking down businesses is the mafias livelihood eh.

Actually I think far the most likely thing is Oswald did it off his own bat, difficult shots but not impossible as people have claimed. Probably very unlikely to do it every time, but well within the realms of probability.
The world has had conspiracies in it, sure, but has had more crazy single gunmen. Just my opinion.

I have seen someone who had made a study of the thing, take a copy of the rifle and shoot that accurately at that distance. Not on a moving target though, but the car wasn't racing along either.

Put it another way. Would any of us say "I will be safe" and let a trained rifleman take exactly the supposed Oswald shot at us?.

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I would rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy

Me said it.

The least mentioned is the obvious choice and with the recent hit in Dubai. It shows their capacity for this. US assistance as well.

The Mafia would never shoot the only Catholic President.




http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/mossadand ... nation.htm
http://www.rense.com/general42/enemies.htm

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In time all will be revealed.

Not impossible. And they certainly know how to keep their gobs shut when national security is at stake. But I think it extremely unlikely, simply because of the political fire-water it would be. SOME official record would exist, and then the opposing party could simply drop wind of it in the ear of the CIA.

Then when approached for confirmation, "co-operate" with a trusted ally, and

"OH, WHAT HORROR, the naughty Ben-Gurion and his Naughty political allies, murdered JFK, their party have proven themselves unfit to ever be allowed to stand for the Knesset again!".

I think the Mafia actually quite happily killed Catholics though, they killed one another freely enough, didn't they?.

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I would rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy

Me said it.

Yes but by that logic they would have no hesitation to kill the Pope and if you're truly Catholic you would not do that. The mafia may have been incorporate as per the connections expressed in my previous links,



and the obvious overlooked



but then again it could be the Mafia only.......hang on aren't there Jews in the Mafia

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In time all will be revealed.

Not even if they ensured Kennedy got elected by rigging the vote in Chicago, then once in office JFK and his brother Bobby turned on the Mafia by clamping down on them? That's what was claimed in the book "Double Cross" by Chuck Giancana.

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Pobody's nerfect

Of course they would. . .Religion’s got nothing to do with it, otherwise a majority of hits carried out in the last 70+ yrs. with competing factions of the family would never have materialized.

As for the possibility that the Mafia pulled off JFK’s assassination, I’d have to judge the notion highly probable and needn’t be as circuitous as described in AngelTV’s reference. The Kennedy’s were just a thorn in the mobs’ backside pure-n-simple and the family likely wanted them iced. Add to this Ruby’s hit on LHO shortly after which bore all the suspicious hallmarks - successfully silencing LHO forever and what does this case begin to take on the appearance of?

Joe (Bigsky770)

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“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.”

- - Groucho Marx

Rather lame scenario IMO which is probably why it's not exactly a CT best-seller. The above links play loose with the facts and "fills in the blanks" with unsupported innuendo and illogical speculation. I would be more inclined to believe ET had JFK "offed" to forstall imminent disclosure than buy into what I just read.

Cutting right to the chase, Israel didn't need to ask anyone for The Bomb or for "permission" to pursue their own program. Is there one instance where anyone, let alone Israel, actually does something like that? By 1963 Israel was already well on it's way to building it's own Bomb and it was the French, not the Chinese, that got the ball rolling for them. The disconnect between Washington (also London and later even the French) and Tel Aviv revolved around the stated purpose of the Dimona nuclear reactor, not an inane Israeli request for nuclear weapons "permission" which makes the Israelis come across as geopolitically naive to be kind. Israel knew that the Western powers, particularly Washington, were against the introduction of nuclear weapons in the Middle East, not because of anti-Semitism or anything like that, but because of fears that the USSR would feel compelled to "level the playing field" and provide Egypt with nukes of her own.

I don't want to get to where I'm arguing against the merits of one CT by supporting another but the Mafia, as has been pointed out, has no qualms about killing Catholics (and Angeltv, JFK wasn't exactly the Pope, was he? ) ... but the real problem with any Mossad-JFK assassination isn't about whether the Mossad has the expertise to do it (they and other agencies do) or whether the Mob suddenly became worried about religious affiliation, it's the simple fact that Israel didn't need US support back then for something that, to this very day, they haven't officially admitted to having anyway.

So why did Johnson reverse so much Middle Eastern policy when he became President on JFK's death and increase aid to Israel (almost double). I also don't see the connections as "loose". They seem to be very conjoined and show as much reaching to fill in the gaps as other CT's.

Understand the Pope and JFK being somewhat different but my point is the Mafia run an industry that relies on its cohabiting within the US. The risk of this being uncovered as a Mafia Plot begs one to think the wraith does not warrant the conspiracy.

Israel did not need permission but that isn't what is scribed. Israel needed support and approval. Washington's was clear that it did not want imbalance of power in the ME.

Your other points are very valid and like all CT's this one has its unanswered questions.

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In time all will be revealed.

You obviously don't know your history, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to compare how the two presidents conducted policy or provided aid. The Middle East JFK dealt with was far different than the one LBJ saw, especially in the later years of the Johnson presidency. Israel went to war in 1967, over 3 years after LBJ's ascendancy, as a vastly out-numbered underdog with a primarily French-equipped air force that was getting long in the tooth. What's that say about what you're trying to say? Here's a link that summarizes US-Israeli military relations. Read it and notice when and why we increased aid. You'll see that the only thing that's "conjoined" is the US/Soviet arming of their Middle East proxies.


Discovery would be problematical to any cabal, would it not? I don't think Kennedy being Catholic really matters.


Since it was US policy until the mid-1960s not to contribute to an arms race in the Middle East why would Israel even expect US "support and approval" for having their own nukes? I think all you need to do is review Israel's history and you'll see Israel hasn't needed support and approval for anything they feel they need to do. BTW, where was all this "support and approval" for Israeli nukes after Kennedy was shot?


Sorry Angeltv, but this whole premise is so lame that if it was a scifi movie it would be Plan 9 from Outer Space. You should be glad you didn't think this one up yourself.

Lots of people COULD have done it. Today, if the British PM told the lads in Hereford to do a JFK on someones head of state, not only would it happen, TO ANY head of state, but they would plant evidence "proving" some likely patsy country "did it". And any country would have done the same then.

That is ( counter intuitively, I admit it ) why I think LHO did it by himself. If it had of been the mafia, they would have set a link FROM Oswald, to Cuba, or Canada, or someone. Ditto if Castro did it, he would have linked through the "patsy" Oswald, to the mafia, or to the CIA say.

Instead, the line stops at a guy we KNOW actually shot that morning. Not only did he own the gun, he shot a pursuing police officer, he HAD fired at Kennedy from the book building. If he was the patsy, the real villians, knowing people would have said "One guys did it? . . bull", would have provided a tentative link past LHO to some other party. imo.

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I would rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy

Me said it.

- Angel, JFK was the first pres. to break the arms embargo on Israel (in place since 1947) so he was hardly an enemy towards the Israelis. . .True, Johnson was friendlier still but this was due necessity as the progression of events in the ME warranted that strengthening of ties. You see, it was shortly after Kennedy's assassination the then-Arab League gave a 'statement of intent':

From Site:


And:

From Site:




Only just. Point is, any nation can only bear so much before they begin dishing out whats' been slung their way. Remember Gulf war 1? Saddam Hussein was launching modified SCUDS into Israel in an attempt to drag them into the war - The Israeli patience was wearing so thin - It was only after receiving a promise of aid (Patriot missile batteries from the US & Patriot squadrons from NL) they were 'talked down' from taking action. Thankfully. Such Israeli involvement whether provoked or not would've been a disaster beyond imaginings.

Joe (Bigsky770)

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“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.”

- - Groucho Marx